This is a very deep topic! From my experience it is very important to explore and there are so many angles to approach it.

There are two great inbalances: apathy and reactiviy. Those who get caught up in "fixing" the world will often get cynical, frustrated and and full of anger.

Those who give up on the world to reach meditative freedom often end up with calm but stunted hearts. When I was in Burma I met many folks in the monasteries who really had mental dry rot!

What I've seen as completely necessary is to keep visiting and integrating the compassion we feel for our selves and the world and being pro-active and responsive to the events in samsara, AND to withdraw from the vast external chaos for days or even years at a time to have a chance to sort out your mind and heart.

BUT it is the integration and balance of the two that leads to a truly unconditional freedom. It's up to each individual to discover their true and healthy path to find what their authentic balance is for this. This balance is different for everybody and keeps changing as we keep exploring.

well said ming, my metaphor is defficient, I will attempt to explain myself better.

math is (wo)mankinds attempt to grasp onto the universe around us and try to understand it. In math one learns that there is more than one way to arrive to the same solution. One can also learn that certain variables can drastically alter the end result in a positive or negative fashion. Where math fails us that it leaves us with the impression that there is only 1 true answer accomplished by a solution.

The other problem with math is that it can mislead us into believing that certain fact are or are not true based on omissions or interpretations.

But I'm not going to get into a discussion about dimensional variables or floating points. Lets talk about peace.

Peace is not a verb or action word it is a end result. Alot of things dont have to happen to attain peace. I dont think one can be peacefull, but one can certainly be at peace or with peace. Ultimatly peace is nothing.

I use Malcolm X as an example compared against Ghandi because ultimatly both achieved their agenda but in very different ways. If Ghandi in his last years had decided to become violent and use force to get his opinion across and achieved the same result I do not think that anyone would think any less of him. Neither individual experienced any less pain than the other. Ghandi inflicted pain and suffering on himself and Malcolm X chose a path of oppossition.

The problem is fear and there is not a damned thing any of us can do about it. Fear is an instinct it is programmed into each of us by nature. Our survival is no longer threatened by who can find something to eat instead is has become something more complex which of us is worthy to survive. Which of us is more correct than the other person. How long can we hurl insults at each other until we decide to hurl rocks or missles or grenades.

How many ppl have to die before we figure out how to live in harmony. Are we really so smart an animal that we kill more of our own than anything else.

So we are back to the math equation a living equation must be balanced in order to continue, but things start to get complicated in a hurry when you start to throw in variables....because no matter how you look at it life isnt black and white, good and evil, peas and carrots, war and peace. Some wrongs are good and some good is wrong, everyone has experienced that, it's called hurt.

Hurt sucks because its pain, and pain is never good, well that is unless it is. Oh baby that hurts so good!

Peace is nothing. Nothing at all. I really dont like seeing innocent ppl die for nothing or in the name of nothing. I cant make you understand that, you will have to see it for yourself.

Life has a balance, a balance that will be maintained at any cost. You cannot have pain without pleasure, positive without negative. thats math, thats our grasp on the universe. You are here to learn your place in the universe, when you are ready you will move on.

peace be with you

Good point!

Warhawks have a divine nature as well. It is within their ability to view the world differently, but they rarely choose to follow that vision. The reasons they choose to embrace competition & violence in their actions is due to the inimical karmic interactions and reactions with the world around them.

They will eventually reach enlightenment, and what you are seeing about them is just a piece of the patchwork of their life - and no matter how distasteful it seems - our seeing their actions with distaste is another form of attachment. It is an attachment to our view of what is wrong with the world, which is always a reflection of our own inner nature and what we feel is wrong with ourselves.

However, I certainly hope & believe that many folks that post here do have an positive impact on the world around them by their awareness of our Buddha nature. Some may even have a positive impact on this (choir) tribe :)

~ morelfish ~

jeez I'm not trying to preach to anyone, I was just trying to offer my opinion on why I thought 'just colleen' got chided in her letter.

but she hasnt replied, so I'm going to stop on that subject while I am behind.
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In response to Ming, i am not preaching, I think it is healthy for like minded folks to have a dialogue amongst themselves.

I dont want to save the world, thats not my place. It is also not my place to try to change anyone whether it be for good or bad. I am no saint and in many cases I am no better than some of the ppl that I come in contact with. The difference being I may not act on some of the things I think about or I may actively prevent myself from doing these things. It doesnt make me any better than the person who does act on evil, just different.

Buddhist or Muslim or Christian we all want the same things.
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In response to morelfish:
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." - A.J. Muste

wow that is a beautifull quote and in a john lennon kinda way, it's so optimistic and pretty I wish it where possible. I say that in all sincerity.

What kind of irony is it that a "peacekeeper" carries a gun. That the years of cold war [a relatively peacefull time in history between world superpowers] where fueled by the immenent threat of total world annihilation. why should it be that "peace" is fueled by fear of retribution. how is it that a world that has never known peace can tell me what peace is.

If a man must use violence to preserve the peace is he any less divine than the man who has never had to experience such a thing. I think it is highly dangerous to posture oneself as wholey holy without the full perspective.

If a monk has to fight to preserve himself and his way of life is he any less entiltled to enlightenment. I pray alot and i spend alot of time doing good stuff for others, I dont want or expect praise nor do expect that it will bring me any closer to enlightenment. But I am trying to posture myself so that I can understand things better.

i think this dialogue is healthy. I lead my life outside and away from others, rarely do I find ppl intelligent enough to speak with nor 'enlightened' (i use that term lightly) enough to find engaging.

lead by example.
peace be with you.

I come from a zen lineage that includes omori sogen, a zen swordsman who supported the japanese war against china even after his first enlightenment. also in my lineage is yamaoka tesshu, one of the last samurai, council to the meiji emporer, and a contemporary of saigo takemori (the samurai general who led the satsuma rebellion), who said of Teshu "how do you control a man who does not fear death?"

Tesshu was founder of muto ryo kendo school which has all but dissapeared oweing to its incredibly arduous training- a teacher of this style must pass a final test: 7 days of constant randori, 14 hours a day with multiple attackers- 100 people lined up and coming 2, 4, 7 at a time, resting between attacks, drinking water... while the man being tested stood in the middle in constant combat... the rinzai understanding, in my small grasp, is exactly that buddhism should not be confused with pacifism. it is more than a fight to the death: it is a fight to end death.

as a martial artist and zen practioner, I agree with this understanding that buddhism should not be confused with pacifism. yet, just a s tesshu, i do not adheer to it. adherence is attachemnt to an idea. attachment is prison for the mind. even this is a trap....

the fact of nature is that conflict exists, struggle exists. trying to eliminate these things can lead to serious folly, increasing ones entanglement in samsara.

despite this, Omori Sogen started an international peace studies institute, still active to this day and as hell bent on creating peaceful resolution of violent conflict as he was on engaging war with the chinese. tesshu yamaoka lived his 53 years facing several assassination attempts and engaged in countless duels, yet never kileld or seriously harmed an opponent. many of his would be assassins became his sudents after thier failed attempts.

to strive is a cause of suffering; but to strive is also human nature. if one strives for peace they will suffer, and may transmit that suffering to others around them. yet to not strive for peaceful ends and means is certain to cause hardship. what escape is there from samsara?

who is the i that suffers? shugyo, the hard training we embrace in sesshin or vipassana, eating little, sleeping less, delving seriously and consistantly inward... this is no less prone to creat confusion and trouble than a life of debauchery and selfishness. so why train?

each is who he or she is. pacifism causes me no suffering, only my work to end suffering allows me to engage it. if I do engage it, I am damned; If I do not, i am tormented...

what difference then? I do not look for answers, i dont have the time. i dont have an answer for you, it is yours to find.

what I mean is that I train. suffering or not, ideals or not, I am training myself. if one asks questions, they train themself to ask questions. as an old zen man said, it is a red hot ball of iron you can neither swallow or spit out.

isnt it delicious?